![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
"Soren Hates Everything" - An overview of the localization of Soren's personality
I realized that I mention this subject a lot, but I've never actually done a write-up on the subject.
Okay. Here we go.
Long story short, Soren doesn't hate everything.
Long story long...
When the localization team brought over Path of Radiance, they had the task of making tropes work for an American audience.
Soren, to a Japanese audience, was a dick. He accomplished this by being cold, distant, taciturn, and hyperpractical. He accomplished this by slighting characters in subtle ways that are terrible in a Japanese society -- but might only be taken as a sign of being a relatively blunt/vocal person to an American audience, since we're more into speaking our minds and all that.
(That is the myth, at least. I'm not sure what you would find if you actually looked into how often people truly gave a dissenting opinion in either society.)
And so the localization team made Soren more aggressive so he would correctly read as an asshole to an English audience. (For example, see Makalov's supports. Also note that in other places they just decided to make Soren their buttmonkey -- scroll up for the actual Ilyana lambshank line.)
Unfortunately, they did this as a translation team on a tight schedule and did not always have in mind the complete context of the conversation before them.
Take, for example, the conversation triggered if Soren steps on Stefan's tile in Ch 15. In the English, he's casual, combative, dismissive. In the Japanese, it's... a little ambiguous. I mean, !? when Stefan pops out of the sand, wouldn't you be surprised if someone popped out of the sand?
But context matters. In Ike/Soren B you discover that Soren had found out that he was Branded very shortly before this chapter. As you go into the desert, Soren's visibly upset and Ike remarks on it not only in that conversation, but also in an unrelated one with Sigrun. The game is incredibly consistent about acknowledging Soren's state of mind at this time, and its cause.
And here he meets someone Branded like him, and it's well established that all Branded have a sense for these things, even if they're never told exactly what it is in words. Sure, he's got a "!?" reaction here. He's really thrown by this. This is an unsettling moment for him! When he quietly tries to go away and Stefan calls back for him, he flinches. Because this is an important conversation! This isn't What now?, this is, well, triggering. Basically.
Aside from missing some nuances of time and place, this context-blind aggression boost also significantly changes Soren's dynamic with several characters. Take for example the Soren-Micaiah RD 3-7 fight convo, wherein Soren angsts and dons his bitter cape in the English, whilst in the Japanese he basically theorizes about the nature of Brandedness before shrugging and changing the topic. It's easy to deduce from the English that Soren bitterly, bitterly despises Micaiah, when the Japanese doesn't lend the same impression.
The most egregiously changed dynamic, however, is definitely his dynamic with Stefan. You know yaoi rapist Stefan? If you've been around in 2005, or you've ever dug that far back in the fic archives, you've definitely seen yaoi rapist Stefan. Have you ever wondered why there's so much rapist Stefan in Efen while he seems completely absent from Jfen? (I think I've seen rapist Ike in Jfen artwork, but not Stefan.)
I'd say it's because Soren's more aggressive, firmly negative reaction toward Stefan completely changes the nature of their interaction and makes Stefan's prods, hints, and nudges turn into slimy omg-a-creeper insistence.
This doesn't always tread over Soren's dynamic with characters less important to him. Sometimes it can be about very important dynamics indeed. Notice the beginning to the infamous base conversation. Soren doesn't have to say a thing. Ike was the one who brought it up. And he was dead serious about the most important moment in Soren's life. And Soren, even when distressed, even when vulnerable, doesn't go so far as to reactively push Ike away -- he merely hesitates in accepting a hug.
So you might be wondering, then, is it any less canon simply because it exists in the English canon instead of the Japanese?
I think it's a matter of taste. I honestly prefer English!Yune.
But here's the thing. When theorizing, I think it simply makes more sense to go with the Japanese. The Japanese script was written by people who had conceived of these characters and know the importance of each scene and why each line is said. The Japanese script will almost undoubtedly be more consistent than the English. If you're making a Unified Theory of Soren, that Ch 15 Soren-Stefan conversation is a mystery in the English. In the Japanese, everything makes sense.
(I'm quite aware that not everyone has access to the Japanese version of things, but I'm just explaining why I think it's better when you do have access to that information.)
On the other hand, when writing fic, there's the question of reconciling what makes internal sense, with what you like, with what your reader is familiar with, and that's a trickier matter. But that's not what this post is for. This post is just for your information. :B
By the way, while I'm throwing the name Branded around, I feel like it would be neglectful to fail to mention that the Japanese version is curiously consistent about the derogatory nature of "Branded," and in fact gives weight to this line (faithfully translated into the English version) about Ike being very PC:
Micaiah
Yes. He and I are both Branded.
Ike
...Don't use that word. You and Soren are both people. Just like me and everyone else.
- RD 4-F-3 "Micaiah"
In very many places where the English script casually drops "Branded," the original script had in fact danced around it with euphemisms like "children with the mark", "referred to by the same name," "have laguz blood in our veins," etc.
Okay. Here we go.
Long story short, Soren doesn't hate everything.
| Character | English | Japanese | My Rough Translation |
| Oscar | I mean, my brothers are used to my cooking, and Soren hates everything. I think he'd stop eating if he could... | 私の印象では… いつも無反応なセネリオと 元々、私の料理を食べ慣れていた 弟２人は除外するとして…▼ | My impressions are... always-impassive Soren and my two little brothers, who are accustomed to my cooking from the start -- if we exclude them...% |
Long story long...
When the localization team brought over Path of Radiance, they had the task of making tropes work for an American audience.
Soren, to a Japanese audience, was a dick. He accomplished this by being cold, distant, taciturn, and hyperpractical. He accomplished this by slighting characters in subtle ways that are terrible in a Japanese society -- but might only be taken as a sign of being a relatively blunt/vocal person to an American audience, since we're more into speaking our minds and all that.
(That is the myth, at least. I'm not sure what you would find if you actually looked into how often people truly gave a dissenting opinion in either society.)
And so the localization team made Soren more aggressive so he would correctly read as an asshole to an English audience. (For example, see Makalov's supports. Also note that in other places they just decided to make Soren their buttmonkey -- scroll up for the actual Ilyana lambshank line.)
Unfortunately, they did this as a translation team on a tight schedule and did not always have in mind the complete context of the conversation before them.
Take, for example, the conversation triggered if Soren steps on Stefan's tile in Ch 15. In the English, he's casual, combative, dismissive. In the Japanese, it's... a little ambiguous. I mean, !? when Stefan pops out of the sand, wouldn't you be surprised if someone popped out of the sand?
But context matters. In Ike/Soren B you discover that Soren had found out that he was Branded very shortly before this chapter. As you go into the desert, Soren's visibly upset and Ike remarks on it not only in that conversation, but also in an unrelated one with Sigrun. The game is incredibly consistent about acknowledging Soren's state of mind at this time, and its cause.
And here he meets someone Branded like him, and it's well established that all Branded have a sense for these things, even if they're never told exactly what it is in words. Sure, he's got a "!?" reaction here. He's really thrown by this. This is an unsettling moment for him! When he quietly tries to go away and Stefan calls back for him, he flinches. Because this is an important conversation! This isn't What now?, this is, well, triggering. Basically.
Aside from missing some nuances of time and place, this context-blind aggression boost also significantly changes Soren's dynamic with several characters. Take for example the Soren-Micaiah RD 3-7 fight convo, wherein Soren angsts and dons his bitter cape in the English, whilst in the Japanese he basically theorizes about the nature of Brandedness before shrugging and changing the topic. It's easy to deduce from the English that Soren bitterly, bitterly despises Micaiah, when the Japanese doesn't lend the same impression.
The most egregiously changed dynamic, however, is definitely his dynamic with Stefan. You know yaoi rapist Stefan? If you've been around in 2005, or you've ever dug that far back in the fic archives, you've definitely seen yaoi rapist Stefan. Have you ever wondered why there's so much rapist Stefan in Efen while he seems completely absent from Jfen? (I think I've seen rapist Ike in Jfen artwork, but not Stefan.)
I'd say it's because Soren's more aggressive, firmly negative reaction toward Stefan completely changes the nature of their interaction and makes Stefan's prods, hints, and nudges turn into slimy omg-a-creeper insistence.
This doesn't always tread over Soren's dynamic with characters less important to him. Sometimes it can be about very important dynamics indeed. Notice the beginning to the infamous base conversation. Soren doesn't have to say a thing. Ike was the one who brought it up. And he was dead serious about the most important moment in Soren's life. And Soren, even when distressed, even when vulnerable, doesn't go so far as to reactively push Ike away -- he merely hesitates in accepting a hug.
So you might be wondering, then, is it any less canon simply because it exists in the English canon instead of the Japanese?
I think it's a matter of taste. I honestly prefer English!Yune.
But here's the thing. When theorizing, I think it simply makes more sense to go with the Japanese. The Japanese script was written by people who had conceived of these characters and know the importance of each scene and why each line is said. The Japanese script will almost undoubtedly be more consistent than the English. If you're making a Unified Theory of Soren, that Ch 15 Soren-Stefan conversation is a mystery in the English. In the Japanese, everything makes sense.
(I'm quite aware that not everyone has access to the Japanese version of things, but I'm just explaining why I think it's better when you do have access to that information.)
On the other hand, when writing fic, there's the question of reconciling what makes internal sense, with what you like, with what your reader is familiar with, and that's a trickier matter. But that's not what this post is for. This post is just for your information. :B
By the way, while I'm throwing the name Branded around, I feel like it would be neglectful to fail to mention that the Japanese version is curiously consistent about the derogatory nature of "Branded," and in fact gives weight to this line (faithfully translated into the English version) about Ike being very PC:
Micaiah
Yes. He and I are both Branded.
Ike
...Don't use that word. You and Soren are both people. Just like me and everyone else.
- RD 4-F-3 "Micaiah"
In very many places where the English script casually drops "Branded," the original script had in fact danced around it with euphemisms like "children with the mark", "referred to by the same name," "have laguz blood in our veins," etc.
no subject
you should make a good FE6 translation :BBBBno subject
no way man, too much work. way too much work. and if I were gonna fic any one fan translated game, it'd be fe4.
If you have lines or scenes you're curious about, though, I can take a look for you.</>
no subject
is percival/elphin as gay in japanese as it seems in englishno subject
darling when is it ever not
the question should really be if it's gayer
no subject
no subject
no subject
(Anonymous) 2014-04-07 06:51 pm (UTC)(link)The supports with Stefan finally makes sense, and I like the "infamous base conversation" a lot more, Ike always sounded a bit OOC in the english one. His serious tone and the line "Sheesh, you're such a pain" fit way better with his character in my opinion.
just one thing, the Makalov's supports url seems to be closed, could I ask what do it says in the jap version of it? :0
thank you again for translating all of this!
no subject
Oh my, it's been awhile since this meta.Glad you enjoyed.
Sorry about the link -- turns out that post was locked. But here's a public version: http://amielleon.dreamwidth.org/33517.html